Zordak
Devlog - 33 [DEMO UPDATE]
Demo Update:
The demo has been updated to more accurately reflect the final product.
Still the same content but including all the changes/additions since the last demo.
There's been way to many changes since the last demo so you're just going to have to try the new demo and take a look for yourself.
I'm open to any and all feedback as always!
Devlog - 33 - Changes:
Fixed some issues with the new crawling mechanic.
Fixed some cases of being able to shoot through walls.
Disabled the "apapappa games intro movie" thing for now so the game will start up faster, it didn't really add anything to the game anyway.
Improved player shooting offsets which in turn mostly fixes "aim straight up shooting into wall" issues.
Disabled the screenshot button for now, this can be done in so many other ways anyway.
Vertical Sync is now disabled by default (still available as an option) in an attempt to reduce the chance of "slow motion" issues which I've seen in a couple of gameplay videos.
Windows only setting buttons are now disabled on Linux.
The "scale method" button is now disabled if the game is in windowed mode.
Frame Skip is now only allowed with Vertical Sync turned off and vice versa. (fixes some flickering issues on Linux)
Updated the Linux dependency script, added two more things that may or may not have been needed for the game to work.
Supposedly fixed the old "player starts in top right corner of the first room" issue.
Lowered the facility escape timer from 3 minutes to 2 minutes.
Fixed an issue with sounds on game start up that caused them to play at full volume and not the specified setting.
Fixed "black screen" issue on Linux when a room was completely submerged in water.
Fixed "the game not showing up on taskbar" issue.
And moved some HUD elements around + fixed some more minor issues.
Now, a question:
Do you think Achievements is going to be worth having in the game?
I'm only asking because - if this is something people don't really care about then I can remove some unnecessary workload and clean up the menus a bit. (both very much needed)
Anyway, that's it, if you decide to try the new demo, please feel free to leave any kind of feedback!
Comments
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Though I haven't tried this yet (Looking forward to it when I have the time), I wanted to leave my own 2 cents about the achievements thing.
I think it could be a pretty good & worthwhile idea, but only if there's rewards that you can unlock in-game. It could be anything from a different aesthetic for the suits/guns (So it doesn't cause balancing issues by making stuff overpowered, stat boosts could cause dominant strategy), to extras like an art gallery or even commentaries. It means it could be worth the player's time, instead of just being for bragging rights. There would even be the chance of more people being interested in going for the extra challenges.
Any other ideas I'd have right now would only tie to what I'm suggesting, so it's an uncertain basis to go by. Think I'll just leave it this, and if the idea interests you, I could go into further possibilities if it's going to be of any use to you.
Having actual unlocks for achievements is a very good idea and I think I might go for a similar route to how Frictional Games did it.
There's a password protected "secrets.zip" in at least two of their released games which you unlock the password for in-game, then there's a bunch of extra goodies in there.
So I think I'm going to do that for some achievements, have a few locked zips included with the game which you then get the password for when unlocking certain achievements.
Sure, once someone knows the password, it's available everywhere on the internet but that's kinda whatever I guess, everything will be available on the internet anyway.
So that's one thing I'm probably going to do.
As for skins, this would have to be put way on the back-burner for now, as this would add loads of additional workload.
Stat boosts and such will probably not happen this I know already.
I'll be looking into more ways to reward the player for achievements in the future, some of them will stay as bragging rights though since I can't have rewards for every single one of them.
Thanks for the suggestions/feedback. :)
Being a huge fan of Soma, that's some good inspiration to have :3 The only thing I'd be truly concerned for though, if you chose this route, is how longevity the game will have. Once everything's out there on the net, it kinda feels like it's time has passed. I kinda feel that way about most games that have hidden files; It's a collaberative effort that once solved, has had it's day as far as the general public is concerned. As much as I love Soma (Seriously), that game is no exception to this stigma. Speaking as candidly but sincerely as I can on this, I feel this game deserves a much better fate than that. While I have no illusion about the effort & time it takes, I strongly believe that it would benefit greatly from that little bit of extra TLC, to make it as much of a literal 'Single player' experience as possible in this day & age.
Also, I'm not saying you haven't already put TLC into this... Just making that one very clear.
I'd like to offer a few other examples of in-game rewards, since there's a lot of possibilities with this. Lets pretend for just a second that these ideas wouldn't be a whole other workload that would most likely need to be done as an update/expansion, once the main game is finished;
- Metal Gear Solid: There's always been a bit of interactivity with the unlockables in that, ie; Cutscenes are available in the Movie Theatre, in which you can run around as the main character to choose & play whichever cutscene yourself. They also play around with that in MGS: Special Missions (Photo mode), so there's plenty of room with at least the concept.
- Tomb Raider Anniversary: Find secrets & relics, and finish the levels to unlock character bios, art galleries, commentaries, cutscenes, music & miscellaneous extras like this really cool showcase of all the evironments & their assets (Style Units). Once you've finished the levels, beat them in Time Trial to unlock cheats (Complete an entire chapter, unlock 2 at a time). If anything, stuff like that can be good for hammering in just how much work something of this scale needs.
- Mass Effect 1: After getting achievements for completion as one of the classes you can choose at the start (Soldier, Vanguard, Adept, Sentinel, Engineer, Infiltrator), you can play again as a different class, but with all the skills from the previous class now available (Beat the game as a soldier & choose to be an Infiltrator on the second run, all of Soldier's skills & weapons can be used). I know this isn't an RPG, but the principle of this is interesting to think about, and I've never seen another game do anything like this.
- Metroid Prime: Best not forget these! Stuff like artwork gets unlocked simply by scanning stuff & collecting info (25% complete, 1st gallery open, etc). Simple, but entirely worth remembering in this case.
If I think of any other examples, I'll err... I dunno, there's options available.
This is a lot of info for something that's probably not intended to be thought of as much as I am, and I'm well aware that some would be more tricky than others to think of a suitable use for. The point of this is to give you the info for nothing more than brainstorming. Who knows, you might get an idea or two from one of these & put your own little twist on them. It helps things gain identity & stand out just that little bit more. But at the end of the day, it's all up to you & I'm just someone typing walls of text about this stuff ^^;
So I think I get what you are saying but I don't think there's much I can do to combat this.
Basically everything will be available on the internet, whether it be straight up passwords for the zips, playthrough videos, images, anything.
It all depends on how popular the game will be.
I also didn't really mean that every reward will be a zip thing only, I'll be trying to add other things as well, maybe something similar to some of the things you listed. (will put these things on the list so I can go back and look again)
I'm pretty sure I will be having some achievement zips though as I have some stuff I think would fit pretty perfectly for that kind of thing.
I appreciate the feedback though and will put this on the list as mentioned earlier, I'm just not terribly concerned about achievement content right now as adding stuff like this would fit much better when the entire game is basically complete.
The reason a few achievements already exists is to have a system in place to easily add them later.
Anyway, thanks for the suggestions and I'll keep this in mind for later. :)
I completely agree with you; This kind of thing is best saved until after the main game is assembled, if you decide to do anything along these lines. It's absolutely fine if you feel uncertain whether or not it's worth it, depending on how popular the game will be. I only mention it because as a fan of this, I feel it would be disengenuous to not voice up any concerns.
I could try listing more games with more examples, but to be honest, I think the list I've given says about as much as it's going to say, at least in terms of unlockable rewards. But I think I'd like to add a more general observation about this stuff.
Thinking back to some of my favourite games ever, they were some of the most tightly self-contained single player experiences ever made, because of one reason or another. But above all, just about every one of them have one distinct thing in common; An experience on a dedicated console, without any kind of intention of tying things to the internet. Something that was solely focussed on keeping your hands on that controller (Or keyboard), and immersing you as much as possible. That's what a lot of older consoles have over today's stuff; They don't need the internet to access a single thing in the games. That can benefit the whole thing, right down to how each individual room feels. I still remember actually feeling the cold through most of Metal Gear Solid (psx), but the warm temperature of my room gave me the impression of being in the sneaking suit. Was exactly the same for Phendrana Drifts in Metroid Prime, as well as a lot of Super Metroid (Y'know, the red caverns & that famous music, and the way you go further down through damp tunnels to get to Norfair or Maridia? Or the start of Zebes? Or the corridor that leads you to the Torian Lift? Good stuff!).
But because this isn't for a dedicated, older console; The most recent example I can think of has got to be Hyper Light Drifter, an awesome but brutally hard game on Steam. It's purely concerned with keeping you in the game, exploring everything there is to offer. It has little interest in having people poke around in the gamefiles, doesn't care that YouTube & forums are a thing, and proves that it's still possible to take this kind of approach on today's platforms (Digital distribution, etc). I'd recommend checking it out if you ever have the time. It's well & truly worth it, and the behind-the-scenes story is really interesting.
... Anyway, I know there's not much you can do about the whole internet thing (I mean... Well... Yeah), but I'm hoping you get what I mean about the game being more immersive when it's self-contained. If you get any idea on how to use that principle in your own way, there's no limit to the kind of atmosphere you can create with this. That & it helps the whole 'Keeping the player hooked' angle.
Gotta say, feels kinda good to share that bit of info with a dev. Whether it's any use or not, it's a strong belief I've had for years.
So, yeah, things actually became a bit more clear now.
I definitely agree with keeping as much as possible self-contained within the game.
There's one issue with this though, most of the things I plan to possibly put inside locked zips can not be put inside the actual game. (it's not images, audio, video or text)
So I don't really have much of a choice other that zips for those specific things.
But for anything that is one of the things mentioned above, those can be put inside the actual game and I will try to find a good way to do this, if I decide to include any of these things.
As for the atmosphere stuff, I've only scratched the surface of what I actually want the atmosphere to be like, hopefully I can fully realize this with time. And yes, most of the super metroid things you listed are actually a big inspiration for atmosphere, mostly the tourian lift corridor and maridia glass tube stuff.
And about the internet, yeah, there is definitely nothing I can do, even if everything was included inside the actual game there will still be videos of how to do this and that, videos showing all the unlocked achievement stuff, and most likely even unpacked game files available somewhere. (depending on game popularity)
And I know *of* Hyper Light Drifter, the gameplay just didn't look like my type of game so I didn't really care that much, so I don't know, I probably won't look that deep into it.
So yeah, I basically agree with everything, it's just hard to actually make things happen the way you want in-game, and I've got so many planned things (definitely too many) so we'll just have to see what happens with time.
I appreciate the feedback / suggestions as it has actually helped me think of things to do / add, so thanks for that. ;)
**post edited to remove spoilers**
I think I know where you mean.
But can you post a screenshot of the place in the room so I can make sure?
You may be able to edit the image out of your post after I've replied again to prevent spoilers I guess.
Okay yes, it's the place I thought it was.
So, the issue here is, that room should not be accessible in the demo so I did not include that room file therefore causing the game to try and load a non existing room resulting in that black screen loop.
I'm guessing you managed to hit the block through the wall thanks to me not having fixed that issue yet.
I'm going to have to rework projectiles a bit at some point in order to remove this issue where they can go like 1 tile inside walls or so and therefore hit stuff behind walls.
Bottom line, that room is not accessible in the demo.
Thanks for telling me though because now I know this issue exists there as well. :)
(feel free to remove the screenshot to reduce spoilers, if possible)
Oh yeah, that makes total sense because when I went back to see if it would happen again, I realized that I could only trigger the blocks if my gun was sticking into the wall! LOL Well, good to know it's not actually a bug! Now I just need to figure out how to kill that boss... :))
Yeah, I need to fix that at some point.
Thanks again for telling me and good luck with the boss. ;)
I love the work you did, I've been there since almost day one following all the changes and played the first demos, I didn't try the last ones though, was afraid it'd take a bit away the big excitements when i'll play the final game. so my comment isn't really saying something relevant haha sorry ! But... I seen people here arguing about achievements, I can live with them in the game but i'd personally prefer without. these kind of games are made for getting lost and being in sort of immersion that when you play, you almost can forget you're irl. achievements can be worthy for many reasons, but please try not pushing too much with them, to not kill the immersion feeling.
really looking forward to the final shot.
keep up the hard work
best
F
Hey, thanks for sticking with me so far. ;)
You don't have to try the new demo if you don't want to, the main reason I update the demo is to have new players get a better experience. (and so I don't get bug reports or comments about already fixed issues)
So yeah, I understand achievement popups and such can be a bit immersion breaking.
So thanks to Boscoe's comment down below I now have plans to add a button for enabling/disabling in-game achievement popups. :)
Thanks for the feedback!
haha so simple and obvious! great one.
NOW I WANT MY FINAL GAME! *spoiled child voice mode
TBH achievements don't do anything for me. I always turn the notifications off because I just think they're annoying and immersion-destroying. I know they're popular though. I've seen games get dinged in user reviews for not having achievements. Sorry, I guess that wasn't helpful at all. lol
Actually, that was definitely helpful, I have now added "make a config setting to enable/disable the in-game achievements popup" to the to-do list.
I'm sure this setting is something more people would want.
So, thanks for the helpful feedback! ;)
I'll be picking up this game regardless, but since you asked: I do look for achievements on Steam when I'm studying the store page to see if I want to buy something. It's always a little disappointing when I see that a game has no achievements, it sort of suggests to me that the game isn't complete yet.
I would argue that you should at least put in the scaffolding for achievements to be implemented later.
Well, steam is one of the reasons why I asked and it looks like achievements are going to stay based on feedback.
And there are actually a couple of achievements in the game already, 3 of which should be obtainable in the demo so the "scaffolding" as you called it, is already there. ;)
Anyway, thanks for the feedback. :)
This is one of the most polished indie games that I've seen in the past few years. Absolutely beautiful in every way.
As for the achievements, if you are going to release the _full game_ on Steam, there will be people begging for them anyway. So, I'd say don't bother with them for now, but keep an eye on them for later.
Hey, thanks, glad you like the game. :)
Yeah, the game will more than likely be out on steam at some point and this is one of the reasons why I asked.
But anyway, looks like achievements will be staying.
Thanks for the feedback. :)
Personally, unless the achievements are used for clever hints on finding new endings or hidden stuff in the game, I've usually ignored them in metroidvania titles. Both those objectives can be better accomplished through player hinting/teaching in character in my opinion.
Whether the achievements badge exists or not, players can always make up their own for replaying the game later. The key is to make the world/game/level layouts fun enough to draw them in, and give options for how they can proceed through the game. Players who love the game can then naturally make their own speedrun/no hit challenges out of game. :)
So, the way I would be doing most achievements is:
Require the player to actually do something and not just progress through the game.
Try to make the objectives more obscure/weird/unexpected/challenge based and mostly have nothing to do with the main story of the game.
So what I'm saying is that achievements would be a "side-thing" so to say.
But yes, I agree with pretty much everything you said.
In any case, looks like achievements are probably going to stay based on feedback. :)